tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post1248883207899870792..comments2024-03-07T12:57:35.296-05:00Comments on Varieties of Unreligious Experience: Oumin and BerzeboulConrad H. Rothhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01916542057749474124noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-45948983211120728452008-12-28T14:16:00.000-05:002008-12-28T14:16:00.000-05:00Does anybody know what the phrase "Φακα Φανη" mean...Does anybody know what the phrase "Φακα Φανη" means? in the text above?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-5944166594695810302008-06-20T18:20:00.000-04:002008-06-20T18:20:00.000-04:00Robert: Please leave a link here when you post abo...Robert: Please leave a link here when you post about it!<BR/><BR/>--Language HatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-65878133932006074162008-06-20T05:38:00.000-04:002008-06-20T05:38:00.000-04:00LanguageIn case you ever come back I found an inte...Language<BR/><BR/>In case you ever come back I found an interesting second hand book about Berlioz influence on Art of his time. When consumed I will post on it as I too an enamoured by his work.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00533678970029159873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-14144653639615007142008-05-29T11:09:00.000-04:002008-05-29T11:09:00.000-04:00Is Languages’ comment on the popularity of Berlioz...<I>Is Languages’ comment on the popularity of Berlioz based on statistical fact? He seems to be quite well represented on the retail shelf, and Radio 3!</I><BR/><BR/>My information may very well be outdated; if so I am well pleased.Languagehathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13285708503881129380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-86569713618672886182008-05-28T16:41:00.000-04:002008-05-28T16:41:00.000-04:00Robert: the answer will apply equally well in othe...Robert: the answer will apply equally well in other parks, or indeed not in parks at all! I'm glad to hear you have read up on Locke--I'm still not sure what to do with those photographs.Conrad H. Rothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01916542057749474124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-51701955219013092942008-05-28T06:22:00.000-04:002008-05-28T06:22:00.000-04:00Thank you Conrad, next time someone asks me that q...Thank you Conrad, next time someone asks me that question in Hyde Park I will know the answer! In the unlikely event that I should find myself in search of the Holy Grail, with or without Indiana Jones, I will have terrible trouble avoiding a plunge into the depths of hell beneath Petra!<BR/><BR/> You will be glad to hear that I have done some homework on John Locke as you suggested!<BR/><BR/>I wonder if 1904’s comments on the naming of potential Kings or Queens also applies to lesser mortals.<BR/> <BR/>Is Languages’ comment on the popularity of Berlioz based on statistical fact? He seems to be quite well represented on the retail shelf, and Radio 3! The March to the Scaffold and the Witches Sabbath were somewhat bizarre to hear wafting thought the nave of Salisbury Cathedral. But I agree there are many other works which do not get the airing they deserve. The story of the guitar was interesting especially as I have been propositioned for a Master Class on Classical Guitar by a Lady in the Pyrenees recently!Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00533678970029159873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-86598890171779923142008-05-24T10:31:00.000-04:002008-05-24T10:31:00.000-04:00Fair enough! You know I'm a sucker for pedantry.Fair enough! You know I'm a sucker for pedantry.Languagehathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13285708503881129380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-88505194614981543242008-05-23T18:09:00.000-04:002008-05-23T18:09:00.000-04:00Well, OK, let's be pedantic. It is obvious, and ne...Well, OK, let's be pedantic. It is obvious, and needs no discussion, that Αδοναγη is a transcription (of אֲדֹנָי), or at least derived from one. I intended by my original claim that Αδοναγη was an (orthographical) variant of Αδοναι—<EM>not</EM> that Αδοναγη was a variant of אֲדֹנָי. Behind this claim were two assumptions: first, that there existed a standard transcription of אֲדֹנָי, and second, that that transcription was Αδοναι. One or both of these assumptions may be incorrect; I don't have the resources at the moment to check. But the statement that Αδοναγη was a variant of Αδοναι is not incompatible with the statement that Αδοναγη (and, indeed, Αδοναι) are transcriptions. If Αδοναι was indeed the standard transcription, one would expect to find it in the Greek Fathers--the LXX and NT consistently use Κυριος to translate אֲדֹנָי, but I strongly suspect that there are early, and canonical, Greek discussions of the word אֲדֹנָי / Αδοναι (or Αδοναγη).Conrad H. Rothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01916542057749474124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-4408752419452115622008-05-23T09:54:00.000-04:002008-05-23T09:54:00.000-04:00Yes, but my point is that it's a transcription, no...Yes, but my point is that it's a transcription, not a variant. (With the massive collapse of the Ancient Greek sound system, combined with the absurd conservatism of the writing system, you can get quite a variety of transcriptions of any foreign name incautious enough to include a front vowel or glide.)Languagehathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13285708503881129380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-90609919611186484502008-05-23T08:38:00.000-04:002008-05-23T08:38:00.000-04:00"Adonagē is a transcription of Adonai; by the Midd..."Adonagē is a transcription of Adonai; by the Middle Ages g before a front vowel was pronounved /y/ (hence Gianni = Yanni)."<BR/><BR/>Yes, but it is only one possible transcription: elsewhere is <EM>Adonē</EM>, <EM>Adonaiē</EM>, etc.Conrad H. Rothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01916542057749474124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-4275027228950630052008-05-22T09:19:00.000-04:002008-05-22T09:19:00.000-04:00Adonagē must be a variant of AdonaiAdonagē is a tr...<I>Adonagē must be a variant of Adonai</I><BR/><BR/>Adonagē is a <I>transcription</I> of Adonai; by the Middle Ages g before a front vowel was pronounved /y/ (hence Gianni = Yanni).<BR/><BR/><I>Good old Berlioz.</I><BR/><BR/>Good old Berlioz indeed: still the least appreciated of great composers. The popularity of that damn Symphonie Fantastique has overshadowed the rest of his stupendously varied and consistently brilliant catalogue for over a century. (Fun fact: Unlike most composers, Berlioz learned music on a guitar, not a piano, which illuminates his genius at orchestration and explains why his student compositions did so badly in competitions, where they were presented in piano reductions -- his fellow students essentially composed them at the piano to begin with, so of course they sounded good that way, whereas Berlioz's were genuinely orchestral in conception and sounded like crap on the piano.)Languagehathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13285708503881129380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-67007806909457197812008-05-21T23:53:00.000-04:002008-05-21T23:53:00.000-04:00Hector Berlioz found, if not "oblivion and transce...Hector Berlioz found, if not "oblivion and transcendence", at least a whale of a time when, near the end of his Damnation de Faust, he wrote this zany fantasy:<BR/><BR/><I><BR/>LES PRINCES DES TÉNÈBRES<BR/>Faust a donc librement<BR/>Signé l’acte fatal qui le livre à nos flammes?<BR/><BR/>MÉPHISTOPHÉLÈS<BR/>Il signa librement.<BR/><BR/>DAMNÉS ET DÉMONS<BR/>Has! Has!<BR/><BR/>[Les démons portent Méphistophélès en triomphe.]<BR/><BR/>Tradioun Marexil fir trudinxé burrudixé!<BR/>Fory my dinkorlitz.<BR/>O mérikariu! O mévixé! Méri kariba!<BR/>O mérikariu! O midara caraibo lakinda, merondor dinkorlitz, merondor<BR/>Tradioun marexil,<BR/>Tradioun burrudixé<BR/>Trudinxé caraibo.<BR/>Fir omévixé merondor.<BR/>Mit aysko, merondor, mit aysko!<BR/>Oh!<BR/><BR/>[Les démons dansent autour de Méphistophélès.]<BR/><BR/>Diff! Diff! merondor, merondor aysko!<BR/>Has! Has! Satan.<BR/>Has! Has! Belphégor,<BR/>Has! Has! Méphisto,<BR/>Has! Has! Kroïx<BR/>Diff! Diff! Astaroth,<BR/>Diff! Diff! Belzébuth, Belphégor, Astaroth, Méphisto!<BR/>Sat, satrayk irkimour.<BR/>Has! Has! Méphisto!<BR/>Has! Has! Has! Has!<BR/>Irimiru Karabrao! </I><BR/><BR/>(Apparently there is something like an infernal judiciary or House of Lords operating down there. Who knew?)<BR/><BR/>Most of that hellacious "fight song" is made of whole cloth, as far as anyone can tell. Berlioz simply wrote down something that sounded suitably weird for denizens of the deep. The loud and increasingly frantic music accompanying it really makes me want to root for the wrong team. Good old Berlioz.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the evocative (and invocative) post.Shawn Thurishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09594444415956471021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-51738337813147637842008-05-21T15:17:00.000-04:002008-05-21T15:17:00.000-04:00Thanks, friends.Simon: Yes, I don't know about the...Thanks, friends.<BR/><BR/>Simon: Yes, I don't know about the relation (if any) between melekh / melakh, but it seemed like angel was a better sense fit. Your other speculations (esp. about Baruch) are certainly possible. I thought Μπεσελ might be the Egyptian Bes.<BR/><BR/>1904 and Greg, yes. I appreciate the nod to our <A HREF="http://www.languagehat.com/archives/002897.php" REL="nofollow">first encounter</A> (of sorts). Maybe I should write something on Proust and etymologies some time.Conrad H. Rothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01916542057749474124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-39117701357722123482008-05-21T11:38:00.000-04:002008-05-21T11:38:00.000-04:00Fantastic post as always, Conrad.The adage about w...Fantastic post as always, Conrad.<BR/><BR/>The adage about words you quoted might be an interesting way to approach the lengthy made-up etymological excursions in Proust--we might say, for instance, that digging into the true history of place-names is not just analogous but somehow identical to the work of memory, the Recherche itself. So, however irrelevant or boring the etymology must seem, it is no less important than the arrangement of chairs or the view from the train window. Fascinating.Greg Afinogenovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13529073439919307693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-48675667367024316822008-05-21T11:07:00.000-04:002008-05-21T11:07:00.000-04:00Names are so important. As Gertrude Stein says in...Names are so important. As Gertrude Stein says in "Wars I Have Seen," "I wonder sometimes why the English royal family lets any one who might come to the throne lets him be called George how can they, to be sure Shakespeare said a rose will smell as sweet call it by any name but will it. No it will not. Consider the name of George. Every time there was a George on the throne there was trouble bad trouble."<BR/><BR/>Stein goes on to say a lot of things then about language and English history and then asks "will the royal family again have the temerity to call a son who might come to the throne George. Bertter not, really better not. There is something in a name all the same." <BR/><BR/>Which I think proves your point that "men [and women] of all ages have sought oblivion and transcendence in pure sound and the free line."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-16274122756089118122008-05-21T00:14:00.000-04:002008-05-21T00:14:00.000-04:00Thankyou for posting this: this is excellent stuff...Thankyou for posting this: this is excellent stuff! A few comments, only:<BR/><BR/>Μελεχ: may this not be the Hebrew מלך (Melekh), meaning "king"?<BR/><BR/>Ηοσεφ: perhaps Hebrew יוסף (Yosef), meaning "Joseph"?? Seems odd, but it springs to mind.<BR/><BR/>Μπεσελ: I suppose one shouldn't look for Hebrew cognates <I>all</I> the time, but this makes me think of בית-אל (Beit-El - or, perhaps, Beith/Beis-El), "House of God"?<BR/><BR/>Μπαρουχ: This is quite possibly related to ברוך (Barukh); are you aware that the word means "Blessed"? There is a Rabbinic liturgical response to the oft-repeated "Blessed are you, O Lord..." of "Blessed is His name!" (ברוך שמו). Should one choose, one could hear this as "You are Barukh, O Lord... /Barukh is His name!/". That's a little bit silly, but it works grammatically, and I suspect that many of these names come from such appropriations.<BR/><BR/>Fascinating that Satan should be absent! Do you think that λουμπηελ might be "the lamp of God"? I realise that λαμπιδος (if I am spelling it correctly) is a Greek word and that it might seem strange in a Hebraic/Aramaic formation, but the word also appears in Hebrew as לפיד, לפידות (lapid, lapidot): Gen 15:17, Judges 4:4.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com