tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post777676324548128208..comments2024-03-07T12:57:35.296-05:00Comments on Varieties of Unreligious Experience: To Date?Conrad H. Rothhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01916542057749474124noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-90298986499049844412011-02-03T15:23:51.754-05:002011-02-03T15:23:51.754-05:00bricks can be inscribed too. Haberdeventure in LaP...bricks can be inscribed too. Haberdeventure in LaPlata, MD has over a half dozen bricks thus marked. I am working on a table for these bricks. Thomas Stone was one of the 56 Signers of the Declaration of Independence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-14536623072415005592011-02-03T15:21:46.283-05:002011-02-03T15:21:46.283-05:00Haberdeventure main house was built 1771-73. There...Haberdeventure main house was built 1771-73. There are bricks inscribed with initials and dates on the north side, above the water table course, and on the south side, below the water table course. T.S., D. Stone Aug 1772, W.B.S. 1825, 1768, and others. <br /><br />I am tasked with creating an excel sheet with photos of these bricks. The Stone family kept the home for 166 yrs which in America is a very, very long time. :-) Thanks for article and quotes. Helps me picture the reasons why family members and relatives would do this to bricks. Writing themself into the History. Thomas Stone was one the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence.Fawn Palmernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-50428042305280639802007-08-27T09:23:00.000-04:002007-08-27T09:23:00.000-04:00My impression is that datestones are more common t...My impression is that datestones are more common than you imply. Mind you, that could be because I grew up in a house with two datestones, one C18th (mid, I think) one late C20th, put up by my father on a new extension. Also, the first house I owned shared a datestone with next door, with 1874 and the monogram of the Artisans' Labourers' and General Dwellings Company on it. All the houses in the estate have them (Shaftesbury Estate, Battersea). Perhaps, as well, I am more conscious of datestones, having an interest in old buildings; I remember there was a rare E VIII R 1933 one in a town I used to live near.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-63295373071643277672007-08-10T18:52:00.000-04:002007-08-10T18:52:00.000-04:00Could Edward VII dying in 1910 have anything to do...Could Edward VII dying in 1910 have anything to do with the drop off in comstones and the sense of an era ending? I don't know why I didn't think of it sooner.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-18607530397698699102007-08-07T06:18:00.000-04:002007-08-07T06:18:00.000-04:00Thanks, PB. I thought you might get a kick out of ...Thanks, PB. I thought you might get a kick out of the chart; I did. Re: empires (or late empires) what historical phenomena would be comparable, do you think?Conrad H. Rothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01916542057749474124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-64959019222057418692007-08-07T03:20:00.000-04:002007-08-07T03:20:00.000-04:00If I didn't know better, I'd say you were doing ar...If I didn't know better, I'd say you were doing archaeology, what with the nice excel chart of datestone patterns!<BR/> <BR/>I think the idea I've read more recently that seems apropos here is that traditions are always invented, but that the inhabitants of empires (or late empires perhaps?) seem especially obsessed with their historical place. <BR/><BR/>I like this post.Pretzel Benderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07499362737998089533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-73995740889291234732007-08-04T17:51:00.000-04:002007-08-04T17:51:00.000-04:00Why 1910? I think a number of variables but at le...Why 1910? I think a number of variables but at least partly the sense of moving on from saying "Oh-four," "Oh-five," and so on(instead of the mouthful we use: "two-thousand-four," "two-thousand-seven"); the charm wears off, you realize you've moved past the "momentous" century shift and you're into the teens, which is something else. I know that's not terribly profound, but it's part of it, and the Bauhaus is another part -- a desire to "mark" the new era with a new "look" perhaps. We're just entering that phase in the 21st century; we haven't even settled on how we say the date yet. Gentlemen, it does too matter how people talk about the time. And yes, by 1910, I think everyone knew something awful was on the way. In that respect, we're ahead of the game nowadays, aren't we?<BR/><BR/>And of course, yes indeed, intellectual descendants of Lytton. And his sister Pippa too, who refused to leave London during the Blitz, as she could not conceive of "living in anything but Georgian Rooms." She was quite certain a dramatic shift in scale and proportion would be fatal. Would that I could truthfully claim to be that sensitive to my surroundings.<BR/><BR/>I don't think nature even repeats in me as much anymore.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-61143218011377007872007-08-04T16:23:00.000-04:002007-08-04T16:23:00.000-04:00"I am not one of those who thinks it is possible t..."I am not one of those who thinks it is possible to restore the past. But surely the least we can do is understand it."<BR/><BR/>Absolutely, and sometimes it is the disjecta, the <EM>minor things</EM>, like datestones, or <EM>Sylvie and Bruno</EM> (for instance), that reveal pregnant difference. Our received image of the Victorians is sorely inadequate, lacking in authentic humanity of the sort revealed, I think, by both of these phenomena.Conrad H. Rothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01916542057749474124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-62279194317437246802007-08-04T15:48:00.000-04:002007-08-04T15:48:00.000-04:00I mean, of course, the intellectual descendants of...I mean, of course, the <I>intellectual</I> descendants of Lytton Strachey :-) "I would endeavour to interpose myself between them..."Mencius Moldbughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16472157249344139282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-5894586393587098482007-08-04T15:47:00.000-04:002007-08-04T15:47:00.000-04:00Of course the rise of anti-decorative architecture...Of course the rise of anti-decorative architecture has a lot to do with it. Bauhaus leaves little room for datestones. Just another frivolous ornamental flourish.<BR/><BR/>It's really much easier for us to understand the Trobriand Islanders than the Victorians. As intellectuals, we were bred and raised by the descendants of Lytton Strachey. To praise a Salisbury, Cromer, Gordon or Curzon today is somewhat like praising Brutus and Cassius during the reign of Tiberius. We have instant allergic reactions to the entire cultural complex that the Modernists defeated and destroyed.<BR/><BR/>So my answer would be that before the Great War, there was something called Society. And the people who put up the datestones were either part of it, or wanted to be.<BR/><BR/>Society, apparently, believed in all sorts of things we have little use for now, such as "honor," "character," "courage," "loyalty," etc. It had little use for things we value greatly now, such as "intelligence," "creativity," "compassion," "tolerance," etc.<BR/><BR/>What was gained? What was lost? Who cares. I am not one of those who thinks it is possible to restore the past. But surely the least we can do is understand it.Mencius Moldbughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16472157249344139282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-17472307160039032552007-08-04T13:30:00.000-04:002007-08-04T13:30:00.000-04:00Blocked? No. Maybe Blogger is playing up.What happ...Blocked? No. Maybe Blogger is playing up.<BR/><BR/>What happened after 1910 to make this 'historical consciousness' disappear? The War seems like too obvious an incident, and the connection is not immediately clear.Conrad H. Rothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01916542057749474124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-6367784802214439792007-08-04T13:06:00.000-04:002007-08-04T13:06:00.000-04:00[My previous post doesn't appear, if I'm blocked f...[My previous post doesn't appear, if I'm blocked forgive me] Not a fanciful inquiry at all, as far as I'm concerned, but then I've been accused on kabbalistic silliness and gematria parlor games. The period 1870-1910 could in part I suppose be explained as embracing millennial fever, as happened in the previous era's rush in cathedral building or the 'future's' Y2K panic, but I believe there's more at work, an expanding of consciousness, a growing awareness (in that window of time) that time itself was important, both the personal and the public, and history was telling us something we were only beginning to hear.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-65498213954475091152007-08-01T18:38:00.000-04:002007-08-01T18:38:00.000-04:00On the ubiquitous concrete sidewalks of my America...On the ubiquitous concrete sidewalks of my American neighborhood can be seen impressed the company name and date (1900's) of their construction. It's not uncommon to spot similar dates on other "minor" public works here in the States. A mark of fabrication befitting the forward looking aspirations of those "yuppies" who designed towns and the "immigrants" on whose labour they relied. After all, what's the point in staring at a piece of stone when you've no fear for it's (or your) perenity?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-66461635120107569242007-08-01T15:47:00.000-04:002007-08-01T15:47:00.000-04:00John: thanks--and how similar is the 1872 stone to...John: thanks--and how similar is the 1872 stone to the styles I've found?<BR/><BR/>Steve: thanks for this rumination. Perhaps America has unwittingly taken to heart <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Sant%27Elia" REL="nofollow">Sant'Elia</A>'s dictum that 'every generation will have to build its own city'.Conrad H. Rothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01916542057749474124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-9090027072146723532007-08-01T10:20:00.000-04:002007-08-01T10:20:00.000-04:00I was standing in a Norman Castle on the Island of...I was standing in a Norman Castle on the Island of Lipari when I began to get a sense of how old history is and how much buildings can tell us about it. At that moment I was reading about how the island had reached its economic apex in 3500 BC. It was, at the time, the primary source of obsidian for tools in the Mediterranean. Then the bronze age arrived and economic collapse ensued. <BR/><BR/>I realized, too, how impoverished we are in America for the lack of durable testimonials to history. Many factors contribute. One is the simple paucity of buildings built before the ninteenth century. Another is the tendency in America to view all buildings as "temporary." Ambrose Bierce makes reference to this in his Devil's Dictionary (ca 1912) under the entry Ramshackle. He claims it's the kind of architecture employed by most American builders. A few, instead, choose "Ironic." <BR/><BR/>America keeps starting over. Pretending that nothing can be learned from the past. Pretending that the history of Lipari is irrelevant. Likewise that of Greece. Or Rome. Or France. Or England. Or Germany. Or Japan. Or India. Or Persia. Or anywhere else. <BR/><BR/>We have not been there. We have not seen the buildings. We have not touched the stones. We have not heard these monuments whispering to us the story of the ebb and flow of peoples and cultures: of waves swelling high against the horizon, growing, turning over on themselves, foaming, then crashing against the rocks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20433842.post-51921199922897355762007-08-01T07:33:00.000-04:002007-08-01T07:33:00.000-04:00The building where I live, 13 East 3rd St. in Manh...The building where I live, 13 East 3rd St. in Manhattan, bears a plaster datestone of 1872, which I have every reason to believe genuine. The date is centered at the very top of the building's facade, and was carefully preserved in the 1996 restoration.<BR/><BR/>Although used exclusively as a residence since at least the 1960s, 13 East 3rd was clearly designed as a commercial building. It has six floors, and can be seen on the street view of Google Maps --it's the building with the black bars on the ground floor. These bars are a product of the restoration, and although they are not actually the original design, they are typical of the period.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.com